Conquering the Stage: An Introvert's Guide to Mastering Public Speaking, with Kevin Snow

Public speaking is not for the faint-hearted, and if you're an introvert, it can seem like a mountain too high to climb. Our special guest for today, Kevin Snow, a sales expert and technology enthusiast, is here to convince us otherwise. Once a painfully shy introvert himself, Kevin has broken free of his shell and transformed into a successful public speaker. His journey, filled with trials, tribulations, and triumphs, offers a unique perspective on public speaking for introverts.

The co-host of the top-100 Apple Podcast Growth Mode, Army Veteran, CEO of Time On Target, and COO and Co-Founder of Success Champions, Kevin Snow is a sales expert and a serious technology geek who knows how to help his clients take their automation game to the next level and is changing the game of business development.

With a 20-year career working with brands like Frontier Communications, Nextel, Salesforce, and BNI, his knowledge, skills and understanding of communication and technology are getting real results for the businesses he works with. Kevin knows how to integrate digital technology with your sales process in an authentic, professional way. He’ll show you what you’ve been missing in terms of ensuring an effective system of outreach, and trust-building. 

Part entrepreneur, part salesperson, part networker, part technology master and part Star Wars fan…how can you afford not to have Kevin on your team this year?

Check out Kevin's FREE Gift!

Text Sell Smarter to 612 429 4298

Time On Target Website

https://www.time-on-target.com

Growth Mode Podcast

https://growth-mode.captivate.fm/listen

Networking

http://successchampionnetworking.com/ 

Badass Business Summit

Contributing Author to the Book The World’s Worst Networker

https://www.amazon.com/Worlds-Worst-Networker-Lessons-Absolute/dp/1453866809

Connect with Kevin

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinesnow/

https://www.instagram.com/kevinesnow/

https://www.facebook.com/kevin.snow.9659

Got a question about something you heard today? Have a great suggestion for a topic or know someone who should be a guest? Reach out to us:
askcarl@carlspeaks.ca

If you're ready to take the plunge and join the over 3 million people who have joined the podcast space, we'd love to hear your idea and help you get started! Book your Podcast Strategy Session today:
https://podcastsolutionsmadesimple.com/get-started/

Never miss an episode! Subscribe wherever you get your podcast by clicking here:
https://podcastsolutionsmadesimple.buzzsprout.com/

Follow us on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/podcast-solutions-made-simple
Follow us on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/podcastsolutionsmadesimple/
Follow us on Facebook:
www.facebook.com/groups/podcastlaunchmadesimple
Follow us on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/carlrichards72

Transcript

Matt Soper: 0:02

It's time for Speaking of Speaking Quick tips and tools to take you from stage fright to spotlight. This podcast gives you an inside look from the world of public speaking and speaking secrets. You need to be bold from the stage, no matter what business you're in. The host of Speaking of Speaking, Carl Richards.

Carl Richards: 0:21

Thank you, Matt. Yes, it is another edition of Speaking, of Speaking, and you know we've had a number of different guests join us and so many different topics when it comes to speaking and communication. It started out this podcast just being about speaking techniques and how do you get on stage, how do you do gestures, how do you do facial expressions, how do you create your talk, and it's more beyond that, but we've thrown back a couple of times now to our very first episode, which is all about speaking anxiety, and I don't want to allude to the fact that we're going there because the conversation might go there, but it might not as well, because today we're talking about introverts. Introversion and yes, there are a lot of people who are introverts who speak Some of them speak for a living and do very well doing so and that's what our guests will be talking about today is how an introvert gets on the stage.

Carl Richards: 1:10

The co-host of the Top 100 Apple Podcast, growth Mode and CEO of Time on Target, kevin Snow, is a sales expert and a serious technology geek who knows how to help his clients take their automation game to the next level and is changing the game of business development altogether. He's a part entrepreneur, part salesperson, part networker, part technology master and part Star Wars fan. How can you afford to not have Kevin? Have you either as part of his team or get some advice from him for no other reason about Star Wars and that whole thing too. So, kevin, welcome to the podcast.

Kevin Snow: 1:51

That guy sounds really super cool. Whoever wrote that intro for him. I need to give them a raise.

Carl Richards: 1:56

I get the feeling, no, I can't be you. No, no, there's no way it could not have been you. Seriously, folks, most people on podcasts write their own bios. But if you don't, hey, it's all good too.

Kevin Snow: 2:06

I did write the first version of that and then I gave it over to one of our members and who's actually a writer, laura DeFranco, and she's like, yeah, I'm going to fix that for you. I'm like, sweet, awesome. And she fixed both me and Donnie's bios before we launched the podcast. So, yeah, so I did write some of it, but then she fixed it.

Carl Richards: 2:30

So that's why you both look and smell terrific now, because you have Laura DeFranco. Yes, she took care of that for you. It's phenomenal. As I mentioned off the top as I was introducing you, this isn't a topic we've addressed directly. We've talked about it in the sense of overcoming speaking anxiety, and I used to stutter when I was a kid, which is something that you know if you've had a chance to listen to the episode. It was terrifying, it was horrifying to have to open my mouth and speak. Now I do it for a living. Who knew it would be a complete 180. That's why I say the conversation isn't necessarily going there, though I'm sure there are a lot of people who have speaking anxiety and it stems from being an introvert or the introversion stems from having a speaking anxiety, but that's not necessarily the case because you get on stages all the time.

Kevin Snow: 3:16

Yeah, I do, and but you know I wasn't always able to do it. I can still remember my sophomore year in high school, public speaking class. You know, one of those mandatory courses you had to take and not even be able to get up in front of my classmates and do a presentation and do a six minute speech. You know I literally at the end of it would be like wiped out, I'd be sweating, I would. It was horrible, but I can still remember that Obviously it was that traumatic for me. But you know I had to learn and it took a lot of time for me to figure it out. You know, for some reason the university said I had tested out a public speaking. You know, in high school I did oral interpretation and I did all that stuff to try and work on that speaking thing because I kind of had already figured out that. You know, that's probably. You know, speaking in front of people is probably going to be important for me if I want to do something other than a farmer, which is what how I grew up. So I was, you know, actively trying to work on it and did all that stuff. But you know it wasn't until I got out into the business world that I really figured it out and as part of it was understanding that.

Kevin Snow: 4:24

My personality traits, you know, introverts. If you're familiar with the disc profile, disc, you know if you're an S or a C, you're an introvert. You're much more introvert than your Ds. Your eyes, your eyes, love being the center of attention. They are the people. If you go to a networking event, they're the ones who know everyone. They're talking to everyone. They're like hi, bill, it's been so great to see you. They're that person. And your Ds they're like that too, except they don't necessarily want to be always the center of attention, but they are definitely extroverted.

Kevin Snow: 4:53

You know we're different. We don't necessarily want to be the center of attention. So that being on stage and I don't want to call it anxiety, but that's what raises our hackles is the fact that we're now the center of attention and everyone's going to be staring at us. Plus, we get our energy from not being in like the chaos and in large crowds. You know, introverts would much rather hang out at home and watch a movie with someone they like or, you know, read a book or, you know, do something. You know a nice dinner with like two people is perfect. You know, going up on a, going up on a stage with a thousand people in the audience which I've done is nerve-wracking because it's like, oh my God, there's. There's a lot of people out there, they're all looking at me.

Carl Richards: 5:36

And for you, as an introvert, that would be exhausting, yes, Having to do that, Whereas for me although again having stuttered, sometimes I look at the stage and go. There's a lot of people out there, but you know, I'm still the extrovert. I can get out there, I can do it, I know once I hit the stage, I'm fine. But for an introvert it's there's got to be like a, like a switch or something that you have to flick in order to have the moxie to do that.

Kevin Snow: 6:00

And it's really funny because I was. I was a jock in high school and college. I like sports, but I always gravitated to the individual sports. So, you know, in high school I wrestled. In college I wrestled and, and I would literally go out on a mat that had a whole stadium of people staring at me. Completely fine, did not phase me at all. But the issue with the speaking was that I actually had to look at them and that's what I figured out is like oh, I'm actually looking at the thousand people that are in the audience and staring at them and that's what's freaking me out. So, you know, I started looking at all these techniques on all right, so how do you manage that part of it? And there was one time and I will always remember this one incident, because it was kind of an incident they said you know, make eye contact with people in the crowd, instead of trying focusing on all the people, actually focus on individual people and move around the room and make eye contact with them. So that's what I started doing and and and I'm like this actually makes it better.

Kevin Snow: 6:57

And then one event there's probably 150 people in this workshop I was doing and I present, I was talking and I looked at one specific lady. She was at my left. She was like roll four about in the middle. I remember exactly where she was and I was giving this really cool presentation. I looked at her, made eye contact with me and she broke eye contact and she looked down and she looked away right away and for me I had to stop from laughing out loud. Literally, for me it clicked.

Kevin Snow: 7:26

I'm like there is nervous for me to do well as I am for me to do well. No one comes to a workshop wanting the presenter to fall on their face. They want you to succeed because they came, they're spending their time, they want you to rock the stage. They're all out there and they're like, oh, we want to, we want them to do really well. And it was that little thing of them getting embarrassed by me, me actually looking at them and making eye contact and not being able to keep it. I'm like, oh my God, and that flip, that flipped the switch for me, because then I got it.

Kevin Snow: 8:01

It was that whole concept that I'm one of these people where, if I'm watching like a sitcom and they have this one scene where someone does something that's just really stupid and embarrassing. I will get embarrassed for them. I will be like I cannot watch this anymore. I am done. And that's how your audience is too. They want you to do well, so they're invested in how you do, and if you remember that now it becomes much easier, and it got easier for me to be on stage. Once I figured that out, I was like, oh, they want me to do good. Now I was figuring out all right, so how do I perform? How do I get on stage and make it a really badass presentation for them and, as introverts, for us, that's literally just turning up your personality.

Carl Richards: 8:41

When you look at some of the best entertainers out there actors, actresses, musicians, comedians most of them are introverts which is surprising because I think the belief is a lot of people say well, you're, you're in movies, you're in pictures, you're famous, you're surrounded by fans all the time. You must be, or you have to be an extrovert. I remember reading was it an article I was reading? No, I remember watching some type of a program that featured River Phoenix and he was an extreme introvert. Didn't realize how introvert. I mean very outgoing, or seemed like the characters he played were very outgoing, but the River Phoenix, the actual person, was extremely shy and very introverted, very introverted.

Kevin Snow: 9:27

Robin Williams is also an introvert. You know, you would never guess that Robin Williams, the crazy man on stage that he was, was an introvert. But the reason actors can do what they do is because they play a part, they're able to put on this mask, and now it's not them on stage. And so, for an introvert, if you want to do presentations, whether it's, you know, you want to get on a TED talk, or you want to be probably speaking to grow your business as a business development, who you want to speak at conferences, summits, you know, in front of the chamber, whatever it is, it's understanding All right. So what is my stage persona? And for me it was. I needed to turn up all my stuff. So and that was something I learned in high school I went to a small country school. So you know, we do the class play, which was like all four classes in high school, because that's how many people we needed to fill out everyone on the play. But you know, they always teach you play to the back of the room, and so you make your gestures bigger, your emotionals get bigger so people can see it.

Kevin Snow: 10:34

And for me, that was the kind of same thing and how I looked at it. Being on stage presenting is all right, so I need to make my personality bigger. I need to be more excited. If there's something I'm really into and I'm nerdy, nerdy out on, I need to nerd out more. I need to let those things come out, because I do a lot of technical presentation. So I'm talking about hey, here's how you use email to disclose more business. Here's how you do email deliverability, here's how you do automation, build out processes.

Kevin Snow: 11:03

So it's kind of dry topics to begin with. I think they're cool so I could really get into that, but then I just had to make it bigger. So I was drawing everyone in. So it was really understanding who I am on stage and filling that role. And when I get done with the stage and Donny always teases me about this and when we do the summit, he'll always make comments about people too is that? You know, I'll usually need to disappear for a bit Because I'll need to recharge, because I will literally give up all my energy on stage as an introvert to fuel the audience and to keep them engaged and talking to me, and then I'm like, yep, I'm done, I'm going to go watch TV for a bit.

Carl Richards: 11:42

I need to decompress.

Kevin Snow: 11:43

Well, I need to recharge and I need to let my energies get back up so I can continue interacting with everyone else at the event, because it's not just a hey, I've spoken, now I can take off and fly back home. No, I have two more days of a summit that I need to hang out with people and interact with, so I need to go recharge so that I can keep doing that. Today, I can keep being the CEO, and it's funny because Donny will have people come up to him after I present on stage that have never seen me do it before. They're like we didn't know he could do that. Where is that all the time? And he has to explain. He's an introvert. You know how he comes on when he's presenting and doing meetings is completely different than when he's on stage, because he understands what he has to do in front of people to keep them engaged with his presentation.

Carl Richards: 12:33

Kevin's referring to his business partner, by the way, donny Boyven, who is a character and very much the person that will. Again he would say Kevin, you're speaking on stage. Right, he would, basically, he would literally do that. Right, kevin, you're speaking.

Kevin Snow: 12:46

Well, and he did that the first first year we did the summit, I was like, hey, I want to be on stage. And he was not so sure about that whole concept and he was really kind and nervous about putting me on stage because I am not him.

Carl Richards: 13:01

And he had not even close.

Kevin Snow: 13:03

And he had never seen me present anywhere so he didn't know what I would do on stage or any of that type of stuff. So after that first one, he came up and he's like Well done, I did not expect that from you, that that surprised me and he had. You know, the person who, who was helping us plan the event, came up to him after the meeting. It's like Donny, I never expected that from Kevin. That was badass. I'm like I told you I could do this.

Carl Richards: 13:31

I need a nap now, but I told you I could do this.

Kevin Snow: 13:34

I'm going to go get a beer and go hide for a bit, but yeah, I told you I could do it. So, you know, even he was surprised and he, he and I worked together on a daily basis for a couple of years before our first summit, Right? So, you know, as an introvert, it's it's just really key to figure out right. So who am I on stage? And then get into that role.

Kevin Snow: 13:54

One of the things that was really big for me that I learned in sports especially being a wrestler, where I had, you know, I had a match coming up is I had to stop thinking about the match. So right before the event, instead of like going through and really getting into my head and thinking about, right, so I got to do this move, that I'm going to do this and like doing all that stuff, I would literally stop thinking. I had to stop thinking because I'm super analytical and I would just like dissect everything for me. I had to stop thinking, and now I do that before I speak. So I will, you know, in college I'd have headphones and loud music and I'd hide under the bleachers and just you know, and just like chill for a bit, but now it's usually I'll go out of the room and where it's quiet and I'll just sit and I will not think about what I'm going to say and I'll just breathe and it's almost like a form of meditation, which is funny considering that we tease a couple of our members who are meditation coaches, or like, yeah, meditation is dumb, but both me and Donnie do it, that like I'm going to go meditate type stuff.

Kevin Snow: 15:00

But literally just, you know, stop thinking about stuff. And that was been really important to me to kind of just recenter myself before I go up. Otherwise I will go through and keep thinking about what I need to say and what order I need to say stuff in, and all I need to make sure I make this motion. And I got a point here and I got to do this hand gesture and at this point I'm going to walk to this side of the stage and I would overanalyze and then I would just get all worked up and then when something wouldn't happen the right way, it would completely throw me off. So at a certain point I just had to stop thinking about the presentation and say whatever happens gonna happen, and trust that I know my content well enough. You know I am not doing presentations about things that I'm not an expert in. I am not gonna go up and do a presentation about a brain surgery.

Carl Richards: 15:47

And all the brain surgeons are very grateful you're not going to do that after.

Kevin Snow: 15:51

But what is that commercial? But I slept at a whatever hotel that is. But I slept at such and such at SNI. I can totally do this, but so-.

Carl Richards: 16:00

Actually, I'm gonna stop you right there, because I think you hit on a very key point. There is this is something that a lot of novice speakers struggle with is they try and memorize their presentations or the sequencing or whatever, and it's I've done that too. And also, if you come from something such as no disrespect I spent a number of years in this organization but if you come from Toastmasters Toastmasters is big on repetition and regurgitating. You know the same message and their competition speeches and all that stuff. But when you do that, you end up in some cases, you can end up derailing your talk, because if something fires in your brain out of sequence now, it can totally throw you off, as opposed to, like you said, kevin, just getting up there and trusting that you know your material. Otherwise, if you weren't the expert, why are you even on the stage?

Kevin Snow: 16:48

Exactly. And now when I do slides for my presentations, I don't have a ton of content on them. There's normally a really a visual, a big image. I will have a giant background image that fits with my point for that slide and then a heading like six to 10 words with one thought Right, and that's what'll be up. And I'll have a ton of those slides. So, because I can then change the background for me every time. But now that's my teaser, my trigger for what I need to talk about, Right, and then whatever happens to come out of my mouth at that presentation is what comes out of my mouth. And I'll usually get that other presentation Like, oh, I totally forgot to talk about this part son of a gun.

Kevin Snow: 17:29

But it's like huh, no one in the in this is the thing that once I figured it out, that was huge. Like no one in the audience knows that you screwed up. No one has. It's not like they give you a hey, here's a pre brief of what he's going to talk about and all his slides. You know, they don't know. So they're like oh, that was really awesome. It's like how little do you know? I forgot my main point and but everything else was cool.

Carl Richards: 17:52

It's the old adage of the audience doesn't know what you don't tell them.

Kevin Snow: 17:56

Exactly.

Carl Richards: 17:57

Which is where a lot of speakers get hung up because it's a oh, I forgot this thing and there, and if they don't remember that thing, then they think it's it's the end of the world. It's like no, the audience says like you said, unless they're sitting there with the full transcript of what you're going to say. And there are meeting planners out there. I don't know about today, but I know back in the day that was saying I want the full transcript of your talk. No, you're not getting it because I don't know what my talk is going to be until I hit the stage.

Kevin Snow: 18:22

Well, and the other thing for me is, if I do screw up on stage, I say something wrong or whatever it is.

Kevin Snow: 18:28

I've learned that. All right, I'm now going to make a joke about it, and the joke's going to be at my expense, and I'm going to get everyone to laugh, and now everyone's going to be relaxed again and now I can carry on with my presentation. So I will literally fall on my sword in front of an audience when I screw up, just because it gets the. All the tension then is gone, I can laugh at myself, they can laugh with me, and I am no longer freaked out that I just screwed up. So that was the other thing I learned too. As an introvert in my personality type, I had to learn how I can use humor, because it's different than how a high D or a high I can use humor. I had to learn how I could tell stories, because my personality type being detail oriented, I would tell too much in the story and people would get bored. So I had to learn how to tell stories and control my personality mannerisms to make sure they were effective.

Carl Richards: 19:28

Okay, I'm trying to envision this humor pattern here and I'm envisioning I could be totally out to launch. But if I were to parallel it to someone famous, I would parallel it to almost like a Bob Newhart, but also not Bust a Gut funny, a little more subtle, Am I? Spot on with that.

Kevin Snow: 19:48

Yeah, and I'm actually a big Bob Newhart fan. I loved his shows when I was growing up and he was the consummate straight guy for the humor. Yeah, and I do that a lot. But I also have a very strong sarcastic streak. So, especially when I'm on stage with Donnie, because we're good enough friends and we both grew up in environments where if you were light, you would get picked on. If we didn't like you, you weren't going to get teased.

Kevin Snow: 20:18

So it was kind of this weird thing. It was part of putting a small town in the country where you know you learned how to handle being picked on. And if you fed it back and you protected yourself and you gave the crap in return, people started to like you. So now I was like, all right, so cool, we can have fun with it. We're going to pick on him because he's going to pick back and we'll you know, we'll all get a good laugh out of it, whereas if you didn't, you got butt hurt about it. They'd stop picking on you because it just wasn't fun.

Kevin Snow: 20:46

So that's how Donnie and I are his brothers and I are like that. You know we're constantly tormenting each other. So I have a sarcastic streak that I will let out on stage, especially if he's on stage with me, and that's kind of become our thing. In front of people, they expect us to torment each other, and on the podcast we do it all the time and people will literally email the show and say, donnie, you're picking on Kevin way too much, like, thank you all for trying to protect me, I'm good.

Carl Richards: 21:14

I have thick skin. I can handle big bad. Donnie, I'm exactly.

Kevin Snow: 21:19

But you know so I will do that and I'll use the sarcastic comments in the humor about me. Or if I'm using throwing in a joke, it's usually something with a sarcastic tone to it because that fits my personality and that's what people, when they interact with me on a normal level, we'll see. You know I don't tell normal jokes. I will make sarcastic comments or I will link things together in a weird way that are just going to be humorous. That I thought was funny. And then people look and say what are you talking about? And I'll explain it like oh, that was actually funny. I know, sorry, you're not as smart as being able to make that leap without me.

Carl Richards: 21:56

So Well, on a physical stage anyways, I mean, unless you're a comedian with a monologue, you're not telling jokes anyways, you're drawing in humor based on personal experiences, or, as you say, you've, you've totally botched something and you're going to let it be known and totally get the laugh there to relax the audience.

Kevin Snow: 22:14

And I watch, you know, for a while I lot, I consumed as much stand up comedy as I could Because I was. I wanted to learn how they structured their stories and how they told their stories and how they describe things, because some of them get really super detailed about stuff but you don't realize they're being super detailed about the story. And so it was really. It was interesting to me figure out, hey, how do I do that? How do I, how do I weave a narrative throughout this presentation that I can keep referencing back to? And you know, and that was the big thing for me, because now it gave this structure to the presentation, which is much easier for me to follow, and I didn't have to have this long outline to keep track of and to remember. And then, if I screwed up, everything was broken.

Carl Richards: 23:02

So, wow, Some amazing, amazing insights today, kevin, about how to wrangle if you're an introvert, how to wrangle getting on the stage, and I love some of the examples you've given some of the techniques and tools that you use. By the way, we're definitely going to drop the link for the podcast. It'll be in the show notes, so if you want to check out what Donnie and Kevin, how Donnie picks on Kevin and how Kevin gives it back, that link will be in the show notes. I think, though, one of the things that maybe our listeners might benefit from is just even just having a conversation with you, so if anyone wants to follow up with you or chat with you about this?

Carl Richards: 23:38

how can they get a hold of you?

Kevin Snow: 23:41

Easiest way is to connect with me on LinkedIn and just when you do the connection request, say hey, I was listening to you on speaking, about speaking and I would love to connect and get in conversation. I'll be like yeah, totally, let's do this. So you know, linkedin is your friend, so connect with me there, and Kevin Snow is also your friend.

Carl Richards: 24:03

He's my friend. Before I let you go, Kevin, I'm going to give you the final thought.

Kevin Snow: 24:08

So I guess that my final thought is going to be don't be afraid of being in front of people. You know it looks like it's this big, scary monster, but it's really not. And once you understand that the people there want you to succeed no one comes to a presentation hoping you're going to fail. You know they want to get stuff out of it, they want to be entertained and they're on your side and once you remember that getting up in front of them becomes a big thing, getting up in front of them becomes so much easier and it becomes, you know you have to think about as you're just having a conversation, then it's not a presentation anymore, it's not being on stage, it's literally you're talking with your friends, and that gets rid of a ton of the anxiety and it just makes it so much more fun to do, because now it's just a conversation.

Kevin Snow: 24:56

It's like sales. That's what we tell everyone. Sales is just a series of conversations with an outcome, and that makes it a lot easier to do because you're now you're not trying to manipulate or do something outside of your normal process.

Carl Richards: 25:08

Leave it right there. Kevin Snow, certified introvert who is getting on stages all the time despite being an introvert. So thank you for taking the time out of your day to have a conversation with me.

Kevin Snow: 25:20

Yeah, for sure. Thank you so much for having me, carl. This is a lot of fun and remember get out there and own the platform.

Matt Soper: 25:27

Thanks for listening to the Speaking of Speaking podcast. Fired up about something you heard today, want to learn more? Be sure to visit carlspeaksca, and don't forget to follow Carl on Twitter at CarlRichard72 or join the Facebook group Speaking of Speaking.